Thursday, June 26, 2008

Dispelling Tampa Bay North

Somehow over the course of the last 6 months, the term "Tampa Bay North"
has circulated around the Penguns future.

We think Pierre McGuire coined this term.
If he didn't, we are still blaming him.

First things first.
What does "Tampa Bay North" mean?

Tampa Bay North refers to the Lightning's financial struggle to keep a core of talented players together with solid role players.

The players in this case for Tampa Bay were
Vincent Lecavalier, Martin St. Louis, and Brad Richards.

The players in this case for the Penguins
are Sidney Crosby, Evgeni Malkin, Jordan Staal, Marc-Andre Fleury, and Ryan Whitney, even.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

What Happened?

Late Spring 2004. The Lighting win the Stanley Cup.
Lecavalier, St.Louis, and Richards are clutch during the run.


But that's when it goes bad...


Hockey is canceled for 2004-2005, but after the longest year of our lives,
the plans get ironed out, and the 2005-2006 season is scheduled.

In August 2005, Tampa makes two big moves.

They sign Lecavalier to 4-year, 27.5 million dollar deal.


A few weeks later, they sign St.Louis to a 6-year, $31.5 million dollar year.

Richards is still two years away from free agency.

The Bolts have an honest year, but finish eight in the East,
and get beat by the Sens in the first round.


In May 2006, Richards signs a 5-year, $39-million deal with the Lightning.
Tons of money for a player who isn't that great.

Later in the summer, Scott Burnside writes and interesting piece. [ ESPN ]
"..... As it is, pending a playoff run of some length, the Bolts will lose $8 million to $10 million this season."

Also mentioned in the piece was that Lightnings GM Jay Feaster traded solid Fredrik Modin to Columbus goalie Marc Denis.

Pavel Kubina left in free agency.

According to [ NHLscaps ], the Lightning began the season with a team salary of about $43.9 mill.
Nearly half went to the top three players.

They made the playoffs again, but lost in the first round.

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Why it Went Bad

Here is where we get into the meat of why Tampa Bay and Pittsburgh just will never be the same.

Ownership and Draft picks:

While 66 and friends were saving the world, the Tampa Bay Lightning ownership buckled.

Owner Bill Davidson said he had lost over $70 million by 2007.
But that money was only accounting loses. [ Forbes ]
Tampa Bay is a fairly marketable and money-making team.

Still, Davidson sold the team to Absolute Hockey Enterprises for about $200 million.

But here is where it gets bad.
The bid by Absolute Hockey Enterprises falls through in November of 2007. [ SpTimes ]

All the while, Tampa Bay gets off to a horrible start.
They lose Dan Boyle, and Richards doesn't even show up anymore.

And what doesn't help is the fact that the Lightning have no major help from any homegrown talent.

Over the course 3 years, the Lightning drafted and developed next to nothing.
Why is it important to have some young talent?
Because of Chris Gratton and Tim Taylor, that's why.

The end of the big trio came this past season
when Brad Richards and his way-too-big contract got shipped out to Dallas.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Why It Won't Happen Here

What so many people fail to realize when they say Pittsburgh is going to become the next Tampa Bay is that the Penguins are now more stable and better-run than the Lightning ever were.

Lightning GM Jay Feaster made some horrible personnel decisions.
Everything should have run through Vinny Lecavalier.
But it didn't.

He was jerked around for many years, until recently.

Sidney Crosby is the highest-paid Penguin and will be so until he retires.
Malkin falls in line afterwards, and so on and so forth.
Marian Hossa had a chance to derail this chain, but no dice.

The Penguins also have a solid organization.
The Wilkes Barre Penguins have been highly successful, and the player development is followed thoroughly.

Having the ability to have a solid young player for at least 3 years is a luxury Tampa Bay never had.

Are the Penguins going to keep everyone? No.

But if you think they are going to wind up like the Tampa Bay Lightning...
If you think a Brad Richards is going to get a $7.8 a year from Ray Shero...

Get real.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::


In keeping with the theme, the Tampa Lightning signed Vincent Lecavalier to 9-year $77 million contract. [ TSN ]

Someone get that man a money suit.




When you want completely non-biased coverage of the Barry Melrose situation,
who better to go to than [Barry Melrose Rocks]?
Plus, he's got ESPN's Barry Melrose farewell montage.

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

[PittsburghR.png]

:: Free Candy is in talks with Penguins according to Rossi [ Trib ]

Two days. Two Orpik articles. No quotes.

:: We meant to link this story last night.

Meet Luca Caputi. [PG]

Solid player.

:: Bing comes in at number six on the best athlete in the world list. [FOX]

:: Great piece on 7th-round pick Nik D'Agostino. [Faceoff Factor]

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::


Iain MacIntyre of the Vancouver Sun knows why unsubstantiated rumors reported by newspaper writers never end up happening.

Lack of journalistic integrity, you might guess.
No, of course, not. It's those no-good hockey bloggers. [ Canucks Corner ]

In case you were wondering, we are also responsible for the Baha Men winning a Grammy
and movie theator popcorn costing six bucks.


Sorry.

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Dark Knightblog



What a movie this is going to be.

[RollingStone] reviews it, and it is money.

Thanks to [Nate M.] for the link.

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::


Game #12
[A Tale of Two Periods. PENS LOSE.]

[col.<span class=[pit.<span class=
3 - 2

As Malkin's penalty was expiring, Sakic tried to job in a backhand on the doorstep.
Sabu is there.

Things get going again. Pens still in minor control.
And then:



:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::


Go Pens

357 comments:

team atwood said...

bam

brndlynn said...

thank you for saying what i have been trying to get my friends to understand for weeks now - WE WILL NEVER BE TBN.
the luca caputi article is solid.

KJ said...

bad richards in dallas when it was worth it, not so good actually.

penstone410 said...

finally i have something to send my douchbag friends who say the pens are like tampa!! thanks staff!

cantwaitfordarknightblog

brndlynn said...

im thinking a dark knight cblog get together may be in order when it comes out....

jefe penguino said...

not much to say. ive been on top of a lot of this news for a lil while cause i have NOTHING BETTER TO DO. but i couldnt sleep until it came from the ongoing hockey ritual that is the tPB.

high-FIVE!

later.

jefe penguino said...

okay.. SEVEN-UP!

penstone410 said...

brndlynn
im up for a dark knight get together.. c-blog get togethers will be my summer =)

Dan said...

I love marvel but Batman>*

stokes said...

Brndlynn, you read my mind! The only thing is, i'm not waiting for the regular showing. I am totally going to the midnight showing. In fact, i'm wearing Depends because i'll crap myself when the movie starts. I can't remember being this excited for a movie.

TheSteelPen66 said...

The Pens will never be Tampa Bay. Mario has saved this team, what, three times now? i SERIOUSLY doubt he would ever let it turn into another joke franchise like Tampa Bay

p.s. Pierre Mcguire=Douche bag

J.S. said...

How did the Baha Men win a Grammy? Better yet, how did they sell 2 MILLION(!) copies of that song?

mmmk1989 said...

any body else find it slightly annoying that a basketball player and tennis player are in higher spots than bing. im not upset because they beat out bing, im more upset because these sports went higher than a hockey player.

solid article on caputi

I Have Kasparaitis said...

Haha! Nice post ... my younger cousin is one of the many deranged people who bought a Baha Men cd.

I have ignored the Tampa Bay North because that is the biggest bull-shit I have heard. Well-rounded argument, Staff ...

I love how the "journalist" disses the bloggers were I can recall a lot of faulty information coming from actual journalists like Rob Rossi ... BTW, Rossi, you are ruining my career field ...

Well, I have good news and bad news ... Good news is that I won't have to go to my cousin's party on Saturday (I don'tknow what happened there ...) but the bad news is from sometime on Friday until Monday I will be forced to stay at my camp in Cameron County that has no electricity with my family and want to drive a pencil through my eye so I can leave. This weekend is going to be long unless I can convince my Dad otherwise ...

I Have Kasparaitis said...

@mmmk1989: Yeah, I saw that and was angry about it (that and Phelps not being on the list.) Why don't they test them, see their off-season routines, and regular season work-outs ... Sid would dominate them.

Also, for anyone like me, that wants Pens gear,The Penstation discount

Jasper said...

I always liked st louis and lecavalier, it's a good thing they got rid of richards imo with the amount of salary he was getting
apparently tampa's organization is a bit of a joke
the pens got a solid organization and I am also positive something like "tampa bay north" will never ever happen to the pens

Dan said...

and friend and i have been planning for the dark knight for over a year. if you want to call us gay, whatev. we aren't sure if we're letting his gf go or not yet.

P.O. said...

dan

no chicks allowed! make it a dudes night

Dan said...

p.o.

that's what we're thinking. i'm single, so it's not an issue for me. i had to laugh yesterday when you were talking about soccer and how u were trapped in a defensive lineman's body. i'm trapped in a receiver's body. that's why i played the line.

JYo said...

Dan, you and your friend are gay!

/job that you were asking for

uncleyorgi71 said...

Dark Knight is going to be as sick as the AIDS that Dan and his partner swap back and forth between each other.


Sorry Dan.

Victor Raison said...

Solid Post.

I'm actually hoping this topic comes up in some cocktail conversations this weekend. I feel fully prepared to defend the Penguins against this bull. I might even use a pretentious accent too.

Stilly said...

Whoa AIDS jobbing. As long as they don't go to Philly to see the movie they probably won't contract AIDS.

Spending to much time in Tom Hanks will give anyone HIV. Straight or not.

Stilly said...

Oh yes. The pretentious accent plays. Just pretend like you're Rob Rossi.

Original Nathan said...

As long as the Pens keep MAF in the fold, they will not become Tampa Bay North. The Bolts killed themselves when they let Khabibulin walk and never adequately replaced him (Marc Denis? Really?). Their minor-league system is a mess -- I'd have more sympathy for Norfolk fans for going from a decent minor-league system with Chicago to a horrible one with Tampa if they weren't such ignorant assholes. Tampa's drafts since they picked Lecavalier look like the Pens' drafts of the mid- to late 90s. Point is, since the Pens turned their draft history around, they can grow their own role players, and it costs less money (since the role players are younger and still subject to RFA/arbitration) than Tampa's necessitated path of having to get their role players from outside the organization.

See how much of a difference competent management makes? In Shero I trust.

Aron said...

solid post...again.

baha men...haha

baha men:grammy = barack:president = both:jokes.

Dan said...

yes i love the jobbing!!!!!!!!

we aren't going to filthy to see the movies, therefore we will not be breaking into the musical number "everybody has aids"

i hear rob rossi has it though. AIDS AIDS AIDS AIDS AIDS AIDS AIDS!

Aron said...

so help me understand...

did dan give rob rossi AIDS or
did rob rossi give dan AIDS?

uncleyorgi71 said...

I think Tom Hanks gave John Stevens AIDS who in turn gave them to his team who in turn gave them to Rob Rossi during the first game of the Eastern Finals who in turn gave them to Dan. I think, but I'm not quite sure.

akus said...

Once again staff, YOU ROCK!!!



The night is darkest just before the dawn. And I promise you, the dawn is coming!= July 1
(quote from TDK)

P.O. said...

dan

aids? been to ottawa lately? playing alot of soccer recently?

P.O. said...

it is common knowledge that due to a lack of talent in the early 90s, Adam Graves invented AIDS and attempted to distribute it through cheap-shot slashes

JYo said...

Spending to much time in Tom Hanks will give anyone HIV.

Not just HIV, but full blown AIDS!

/Family Guy quartet

uncleyorgi71 said...

Damnit, who is the asshole who started the AIDS comments? What a dick.

JYo said...

P.O., I thought the US invented AIDS and spread it through Africa by calling it a "polio vaccine"???

JYo said...

What a dick.

Seriously. Uncleyorgi, go find that guy and punch him in the face.

RaCHeLeYoS said...

"I'm not just sure. I'm HIV positive."

uncleyorgi71 said...

I'm gonna find that guy and punch him in his baby maker so that he cannot contract or spread any more AIDS.

Victor Raison said...

"Why do you have to be so HIV negative all the time. Try being HIV positive for once."

Aron said...

Apparently, in the medical community, negative means positive, which makes absolutely no sense. If we did that in the paper indursty - chaos.

- Michael Scott

uncleyorgi71 said...

How about when they drive to Africa and that guy's like..."To get rid of HIV, all you have to do is blend up all your money!"

JYo said...

Staff, can you stop fucking up the world? Thanks.

Aron said...

Also the too much man photoshop was something that took me months to get out of my head. Thanks staff for the refresher.

akus said...

While reading today's blog,

Game recap;
Things get going again. Pens still in minor control.
And then:


There is the pic of GR sitting in the penalty box.

Penalty is for , too MUCH man


Nice thought to start my morning :)

Dan said...

wow i missed all the aids jokes. i was saving the south park one, oh well. actually a lady i work with's brother is neighbors with john stevens. i actually contracted aids from charlie. who got it from sean avery. i have not had any contact with rob rossi, he's not my type. wow i took that WAYYYYYYY too far.

RaCHeLeYoS said...

lol dan.

vitalbeach said...

All I could think about when I read cblog today was "Everyone Has AIDS" from Team America

RaCHeLeYoS said...

"No, Gary! You can't leave! We need you now, more than ever!"

Dan said...

"i will never die."

RaCHeLeYoS said...

haha. i just remembered the part about the 3 kinds of people....

Dan said...

we won't get into that part

Original Nathan said...

From the comments in that game recap: Malkinian said...
Anybody else seeing the possibility of trading Christensen??

11/02/2007 6:13 PM


Impressive prognostication.

RaCHeLeYoS said...

i know...it's a bit inappropriate. basically like that entire movie.

PittHockey said...

wait, can we sign barry melrose now?

Dan said...

i'm ronrey, so ronrey!

RaCHeLeYoS said...

A rittle ronery....poor rittle me...

Stilly said...

Wow reading these AIDS jokes and listening to Stairway have given me a serene sense of calm. The only thing that could ruin this feeling is if I read an article over at the Trib that says Malkin took a midnight flight back to Magnitogorsk for 15 million.

uncleyorgi71 said...

My favorite lines are..."Suprise Cockfags!!" and "Jesus Tittyfucking Christ!!"

Dan said...

don't worry stilly, the trib is too busy writing store about how RJ UMBERGER IS FROM F'N PLUM!

debrisslide said...

I cannot wait for The Dark Knight. Comic book movies have become so amazing this year.

More popcultureblog: I stumbled onto the Rolling Stone list of the 100 Greatest Guitarists of All Time. . .and it = joke. Jack White > George Harrison? What the fuck? At least Ry Cooder beat them both.

July 1st is taking foreverrrrr. Probably the tenth time I've said it.

emily (odme.) said...

Awww, Hans Brix!

May I add that "America, Fuck Yeah!" and "Pearl Harbor Sucks" never, ever leave my iPod...

outoftheloopblog, I am actually going to watch Batman Begins for the first time this evening...don't ask me how I managed to slip so far, trust me, I'm ashamed enough.

RaCHeLeYoS said...

The Dark Knight is my favorite movie of the summer...and I haven't even seen it yet.

RaCHeLeYoS said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
emily (odme.) said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
brndlynn said...

might have some good news today or tomorrow... click me

JYo said...

July 1st is taking foreverrrrr. Probably the tenth time I've said it.

Imagine how long it would seem like if the Pens hadn't been one of the last two teams playing! Its excruciating enough and we had the shortest wait of any fans.

RaCHeLeYoS said...

sigh....i'm going to be out of the country when july 1st rolls around.

Aron said...

PRAGUE, Czech Republic - Martin Straka has decided to leave the NHL and return to his former Czech club, a team official said Thursday.

Straka, an unrestricted free agent in the NHL on July 1, played the last three years with the New York York Rangers. The 35-year-old will be a player and sports director for HC Lasselsberger Plzen, the club said on its website Thursday.

"We struck a deal with Martin last night," club president Tomas Kral said.

via Thehockeynews.com

Brett said...

Gotta be said again -- new logos are MONEY

And Tampa is a joke. But if you want to talk about bad management, you talk Islanders.

Dan said...

don't even get me started on the rolling stone lists. anytime they put kurt cobain/nirvana in the top 10 for guitars (anything really) you know they are a joke. ditto white stripes.

shit. no marty for us.

Original Nathan said...

re: Straka: Well, good. My reason for not completely hating the Rangers is gone.

Fucking whining douchebags. I hope they finish last.

P.O. said...

almost 4 mil a year for free candy? dont know how to feel about that one

P.O. said...

Bouwmeester wants out of Florida?




As if the Panthers didn't have enough to holes to fill after trading away center Olli Jokinen, it's believed defenseman Jay Bouwmeester wants out of Florida.
While the 24-year-old has not requested a trade, he's apparently unhappy in South Florida and would welcome a move to another team.

Bouwmeester is a restricted free agent and Panthers GM Jacques Martin recently had nothing new to report in terms of the two sides agreeing to a new contract.

The Edmonton native made $2.25 million last season and is due for a raise.



It's uncertain if the Panthers will consider trading Bouwmeester, or if any teams have pitch any offers for him. The New York Rangers, Ottawa Senators, Edmonton Oilers and New Jersey Devils are believed to be interested.
In 82 games with the Panthers last season, Bouwmeester registered 15 goals and 22 assists for 37 points.

J.S. said...

Tampa's drafting skills = joke.

I was going through hockeydb to check out their #1s in the last 10 years, wow. Talk about fail.

1999: none. First pick that year, 2nd round, 47th overall. Sheldon Keefe (RW) - parts of three seasons with Tampa, career high 13 pts in 2001-02. Out of hockey by 2005

2000: Nikita Alexeev - 1st round, 8th overall. Jobbed around the NHL and AHL during his time with Tampa. Career high 10 goals and 21 pts with Tampa Bay before being traded to Chicago for a partially opened pack of 1992 Pro Set cards. Currently playing in Russia on Kazan Ak-Bars with Aleksey Morozov.

2001: Alex Svitov - 1st round, 3rd overall. Talk about pissing away a pick. Probably anybody else in the 1st round would have been a better pick. Ended up having a career high 18 pts with the BJ's before heading back to Omsk to play for his hometown team.

2002: no first round pick. Adam Henrich, 2nd round, 60th overall. I thought I recognized this name. Did some time in Johnstown (ECHL). Currently jobbing around with Norfolk (AHL)

2003: no first round pick, again. Mike Egener (D), 2nd round, 34th overall. Shuffled between the ECHL and AHL since 2006.

2004: Andy Rogers (D), 1st round, 30th overall. Split time between Norfolk and Mississippi.

Anything beyond that is too early to call, although I see a lot of Tampa's first picks in the ECHL.

Aron said...

@p.o. is that fair market value? because we should sign him for $3.5 for like 4 or 5 years. Although i'd gladly let him go if he's the reason we're not able to afford Ho$$a. IMO Goligoski>Free Candy.

Victor Raison said...

I'm going to have to disagree with the Jack White/White Stripes hating on here. I'm not saying he's a better guitarist than George Harrison, but if you actually listen to the stuff that they don't overplay on the radio, it's pretty solid.

P.O. said...

aron

on the kdka link brndlynn posted it speculates the offer for orpik at $15.5 mil over four years at a clip of $3.875 mil per year... then again they are citing buzz on the turd for as their source so who knows... i could live with free candy at a $3 mil per year cap hit

Stilly said...

The reason we weren't able to keep Orpik was because of Ho$$a.

Now that Ho$$a is all but gone, we can sign Orpik for 3.5 mil. So he's not holding up resigning Ho$$a.. Ho$$a is.

J.S. said...

@jyo,

family guy quartet AIDS song > Team America AIDS song
(although not by much)

but I wish it was something less seriouuuuuuuuuuus. But it's AIDS! You've got teh AAAAAAAIDS!!

P.O. said...

RE Goligowski

if your defensemen are Goligowski, Gonchar, Letang, Whitney, Scuderi, and USS Gill, you have one too many puck moving defenseman and only Gill to make sure opposing forwards are playing with their heads up and on a swivel.. gotta have a guy like Orpik around to keep people honest

uncleyorgi71 said...

I still wish we could throw some of this money towards MALONE. He is so essential and the Steel City Line is so dominating. He leaves it all on the ice too. I can only see him getting better and better and better. Not to mention the fact that Abby Malone is oh so fine.

brndlynn said...

@ p.o.:
i dont think PSI uses buzz on the turd for info. he's actually normally very careful with who he sights. the info on buzz is actually different from what PSI is saying.
i do agree with you on goligoski vs orpik. we need the physical presence that orp brings.

Aron said...

I don't disagree, but at $4 million...that may be too much. How bout re-signing Laraque for less than $1.5 for that?

RaCHeLeYoS said...

i agree uncleyorgi!

Flyer Hater said...

Maybe instead of becoming TBN, we'll become Detroit East...

P.O. said...

if we resign laraque for more than a mil i would be very surprised

i will also be surprised if we dont keep ruutu

the sweet spot for orpik should be $3 mil but with the money being thrown at defensemen and the post season he had it might take a little more to keep him

malone is gone, lets just all be real with ourselves and know that he is not worth over $4 mil per year for the one good season he had... remember this is the same guy who was trade fodder less than a year ago... he had a great year because of playing with malkin... how many guys profited from playing with mario??... same deal, malone had like 27 goals last year, put a trash can on a line with malkin and the can will score atleast 10.. god bless malone if he gets over $4 mil a year

brndlynn said...

@ aron: having a physical winger is good, but it reallly cant compare to a physical defenseman. orpik is a very sound defenseman with good positioning and is a very good skater (which is rare for the type of defenseman he is). while i can somewhat see your point when it comes to fighting, its really not comparable otherwise.

brndlynn said...

agree with p.o. on malone. as much as it sucks to think he's going to go shero has to look at the team as a whole and with what malone will most likely want it just wont work.

uncleyorgi71 said...

@ P.O.

Goals are essential, no doubt, but look at how physical he plays. He is an amazing all around player. It wasn't MALKIN setting him up every time he got in front of the net and got the hell beaten out of him only to score a goal. If FREE CANDY is worth 4 mil, MALONE is easily worth 4 mil.

Flyer Hater said...

Malone's not worth 4 Mil. He had one good season in a contract year, nothing really to write home about. Without Malkin, Malone won't be a 20 goal scorer next year. You can bring in a guy like Fedotenko (whose career high in goals is higher than Malone's) to create space and he'll get 25-30 goals easy for half the price.

P.O. said...

uncleyorgi

hey i am the first one waving the ryan malone flag, i love the guy and i think he plays the game the way it should be played, he is a man's man... but $4 mil for a guy who had his best year this year at 28 and his best year was 51 points... doesnt exactly sound like a sound investment.. id rather see jordan staal get $4 mil a year, atleast he's 9 years younger than Malone

Dr. Turkleton said...

Maybe instead of becoming TBN, we'll become Detroit East...

we need about 5 years worth of draft picks to play ketchup for the lack of Euros in the system.

I think TB became Pittsburgh South stealing the Howard Baldwin-Cecil Turtle er....Craig Patrick: Ownership-Drafting Playbook.


guess stoosh is still stewing in his wall of fire.

Good.

he needs to get my MATW stock up over fifty --- chop,chop...no time for tPB & cblog at work!!!!






[Caputi]

Stilly said...

I've said it before...

Ho$$a and Malone = out
Best attempt to keep the rest. BGL might be tough, he's going to want a no trade clause.

Resign Dupuis and sign someone like Kristian Huselius for around 5 mil and be done with it.

Huselius - Bing - Kennedy
Dups - Geno - Syko
Ruu - Staal - Hall

Kablam!

Aron said...

@ brndlynn "orpik is a very sound defenseman with good positioning and is a very good skater (which is rare for the type of defenseman he is)."

Did you think before last year you'd type a sentence that had Orpik being good with his positioning? Isn't he the same guy that gets wildly out of position to make the needless hit. He has certainly improved in this area especially in the playoffs but one good playoff stretch does not a big contract make.

I agree with your point about physicallity from the D. it's very important, especially with how much crap sid and malkin are going to continually get, it would be nice to have an Orpik to give them the business when it gets out of hand. But i have a hard time justifying $4 mil/per for that no matter what the market dictates. Same with Malone, it would be a colossal waste of your cap space to throw any more than $4 mil/yr for a grinder (a courageous grinder, but still a grinder none the less)

uncleyorgi71 said...

All I have to say is if FREE CANDY is worth 4 mil, so is MALONE. Neither of these guys deserve to make that much though. SYKORA is only going to be making 2.75 next year for christ sake.

Dan said...

He has certainly improved in this area especially in the playoffs but one good playoff stretch does not a big contract make.
this is why fleury shouldn't get a big contract yet either.

brndlynn said...

@ aron: no, i never thought i'd type that earlier this year. but i thought that after he was put on wing he got much better pretty quickly. he may not always be perfect in positioning, but i dont really think he skating around looking for the hits either. he's letting the game come to him now and has been since feb/april (if i remember correctly). i would be more comfortable with $3-$3.5 mil cap hit but I dont really see any other defenseman out there we can pick up that will compare. and i think that another year with him and gonch would help him get even better.

uncleyorgi71 said...

Agree with the STAAL comment.

Jeffrey Paswick said...

pensblog i got in trouble for my blog and i will prolly be deleting cause some adults are total dickkkkkkkkks!!! thanks for my props!

P.O. said...

players who scored 51-53 points last season:

Antoine Vermette - 53
Brian Gionta - 53
Patrick O'Sullivan - 53
Tomas Kaberle - 53
Christopher Higgins - 52
Andy McDonald - 52
Jason Blake - 52
RYAN MALONE - 51
Erik Cole - 51
Rod Brind'Amore - 51 (in 59 games)
Zdeno Chara - 51
Ed Jovanovksi - 51

now ask yourself if you pay any of the forwards listed above (plenty of defensement mixed in) $4 mil per year?

Flyer Hater said...

Huselius - Bing - Kennedy
Dups - Geno - Syko

Stilly, if those are our top two lines heading into the season, we shouldn't bank of playoff tickets...

P.O. said...

flyer hater

if tyler kennedy snifs one of our top 2 lines i might give up my season tickets

brndlynn said...

agreed on Kennedy. also still not sure on Dupuis on top 2 lines either.

Dr. Turkleton said...

Orr-pikblog

I wonder if the Shea Weber signing of 3/13.5 [4.5 per] hasn't screwed the pooch during any Yard Sale negotiations.

4.0 per would put him in the Adrian Aucoin - Robin Regehr range [also into the top 30 highest paid d-men]

3.5 per would put him in the Barrett Jackman - Willie Mitchell range

3.0 per puts him in a Colin White - Niklas Kronwall range


I think for Orrpik's offensive shortcomings but improved defensive play the second half & into the playoffs should put him in the 3.0 - 3.5 range....

uncleyorgi71 said...

Vermette and Gionta are worth at least $3.5. Gionta has been making $4 mil since 06/07.

Aron said...

i agree, that's not that good. Dupuis has shown us that he's a checker. Kennedy should be on the 3rd or 4th line, not wasting Sid's chances. I don't have a big problem with Huselius...i think he would have a huge year with either Sid or Malkin. He's still too young though to take that "veteran needing a championship" discount and may not be the most fiscally responsible signing for us at least. Naslund...might work out on Sid's left side for $4.0 1yr deal.

P.O. said...

brndlynn

i also prefer my kennedys and dupuis on a 3rd or 4th line... only way i like them on a top two line is if they are centered by Buries It and winged by Jagr circa 1996

Dr. Turkleton said...

p.o.

STH?...where do you sit?

P.O. said...

uncleyorgi

gionta makes $4 mil and jason blake makes like $5 mil.. but would you sign them for that today? thats the question with malone... their stats don't warrant the contracts they have and malone shouldnt be in the $4-5 mil range

P.O. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
P.O. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
uncleyorgi71 said...

And neither should ORPIK

brndlynn said...

@ p.o.
that is def something we can agree on. i think kennedy may have an outside chance to crack the top 6 in a few years, if he makes drastic improvements, but def not yet. i think his size will always be an issue because he's pretty small to work in front of the net and he doesnt have a natural scoring touch (ala syko).

uncleyorgi71 said...

have to eat lunch...to be continued...

P.O. said...

dr turk

let me clarify... if that would happen i would give up my position on the season ticket waiting list which hopefully this season gives me the ability to be a true season ticket holder and not a 12 game packer

brndlynn said...

@ uncle yorgi: who would you rather the pens sign if orpik were to go?

P.O. said...

we cant even compare orpik vs. malone: who is worthy of $4 mil because they play two different positions with two different value levels... guys who can play left wing with malkin and chip in 27 goals are a dime a dozen and can be had for considerably less (IE Syko had 28 goals at $2.75 mil) whereas hard hitting, defensive-minded, young and still developing d-men are much tougher to come by


consider these stats when deciding on Ryan Malone being worth $4 mil per year and would you pay any of these guys that amount. All of thse guys scored 27 goals this year but none of them played on a line with Geno and Sykie:

Mike Ribeiro
Jason Pominville
Nathan Horton
Keith Tkachuk
Marco Sturm
Radim Vrbata
Christopher Higgins
RYAN MALONE
Niklas Hagman
Johan Franzen

Dr. Turkleton said...

p.o.

okey dokey....I was ready to give out an invite for pregame tailgateblog!!!!

Maloneoverpaidblog

it's simple supply v. demand....

Bugsy, to the Pens, probably isn't worth that kind of money [4-5 per]

but to a Minnesota or C-Bus needing that type of player...they'll probably get into a bidding war for his services...and end up overpaying.

Same for Poppa Pump & teams with limited secondary scoring...[if he ends up getting Lecavaligay scratch, that's crazy]

P.O. said...

dr turk

i may not go to every game but i do like beer before, during, and after my games ...if there is beer involved in tailgateblog an invitation would be appriciated

brndlynn said...

you took the words out of my mouth dr. t. if there were other guys out there comparable to orpik and hossa no one would be considering the same contracts that they are considering now. but i dont blame anyone of them fr cashing in if they're able.

Aron said...

everyone must be running lunchblog. I'm an hour behind ya'll.

Raybin said...

The "don't overpay" tightrope is probably going to be the main one King Shero has to walk this next week. Chances are at least one person, be it a retention like Orpik or a free agent pickup like Naslund or even Jagr, is going to get more than they're probably worth. But that's just the nature of the beast. The key is to not overindulge and then end up having to consider signing someone like Melichar to fill out the roster. (Hello New York Rangers!)

Solid performance destroying the Tampa Bay North idiocy. Probably won't have any effect, since y'all are just hockey bloggers after all. Not responsible media members who certainly don't report every bullshit rumor they overhear while walking near the Mellon. Not like that fine Rob Rossi boy.

Goodbye, dear Marty. The NHL will miss you.

The Dark Knight will be the best comic book movie ever.

[Rolston]

uncleyorgi71 said...

@ Brndlynn

Any of the Ottawa UFA would be awesome. Redden, Commodore, Richardson. Cashflow might become an issue. Rozsival would be a clutch pick up and he would cost $3 mil at most. I think he only made $2 or 2.1 last year. He'll get more this year though. Bottom line, I will be shocked if FREE CANDY doesn't resign. Who are your picks?

Raybin said...

An addendum to my first paragraph: It's the nature of the beast beacuse sometimes players would be such good fits, you're forced to overpay a touch to make sure you snag them before anyone else does.

Take Bugsy. The Pens can't really justify paying him 5 million a year. But he would be such a perfect fit in Columbus (to use one of several examples) that they can justify it, even if he really isn't worth quite that much to anone.

Raybin said...

You can ignore the last "anone" in my last post. It's a leftover from a sentence I ended up not including, but apparently didn't entirely delete.

rapidfirepostblog

Aron said...

@ raybin

"Take Bugsy. The Pens can't really justify paying him 5 million a year. But he would be such a perfect fit in Columbus (to use one of several examples) that they can justify it, even if he really isn't worth quite that much to anone."

Then two years down the line Columbus will wonder why they're paying $5.5/yr for a 20 goal scorer.

Raybin said...

Then two years down the line Columbus will wonder why they're paying $5.5/yr for a 20 goal scorer.

You mean Malone?

He'll score more than that playing with Rick Nash.

Aron said...

from Edward Fraser at the Hockey News,

When I first heard about [Dan] Ellis’ new deal, I assumed the $3.5 million was his annual salary, not the two-year total. Even at $3.5 per, Ellis wouldn’t have been overpaid as a starting goalie.

So, in other words, at $1.5 million next season and $2 million in 2009-10, Ellis is a steal. And Poile, the only GM the Preds have ever known, should be applauded for the move.

yoinked from KuklasKorner

marcandrefleurytheflowercomparisonshoppingblog?

Aron said...

@ raybin

why would he score more with Rick Nash than Gino Malkin? headscratcherblog

Raybin said...

I didn't say he'd score more with Nash than Geno, I said he'd score more than 20 goals. He could generate a solid 25-29 a season.

Raybin said...

Plus when you factor in Malone's ability to kill penalties and go to the net on powerplays....yeah, Columbus can easily justify paying him 5.5 million a year because someone like that is exactly what they need. Need boosts worth beyond the norm.

wilsmith said...

wouldn't they not be on the same line?

Aron said...

From TSN:


Martin Straka has not signed a contract with HC Lasselsberger Plzen, his agent said Thursday, despite an announcement to the contrary from the Czech club.

"Marty has made it clear that he will wait until after July 1 to evaluate all his options and make an informed decision at that time," Ritch Winter, Straka's longtime agent, told The Canadian Press on Thursday.

via Illegal Curve

for fulldisclosureblog

Flyer Hater said...

What Do Yinz Think About This Jersey?

JYo said...

Maybe instead of becoming TBN, we'll become Detroit East...

Or they will set their own high standard that raises the bar for all other teams and become simply Pittsbugh, not some other version of a different team.


why would he score more with Rick Nash than Gino Malkin? headscratcherblog

Agreed. Nash will probably still pile in most of the goals on his line and if Malone is on a different line, who feeds him the puck that could possibly be better than Geno?

Aron said...

@ wilsmith

good call they're both techincally LW'ers. and RoundEarth'ers as well from what i've heard. Inside sources

Flyer Hater said...

Jyo, you're definitely right. I'm just sick of all this discussion put forth that having too many good players is a BAD thing.

Raybin said...

wouldn't they not be on the same line?

Maybe, maybe not. I just know that most everything I've read has made that assumption.

They are both left wings, which is obviously a problem. But who knows, really?

JYo said...

FH, I personally hate that jersey design. To me its just as bad as the pigeon, if not worse.

JYo said...

I'm just sick of all this discussion put forth that having too many good players is a BAD thing.

Couldn't agree more on that one.

Stilly said...

Whoa.. No love for Kennedy.

Here's the logic....

First, I don't break up Geno/Syko. Good chemistry. Keep them together.

Second, if we sign an offensive winger it will be for the TOP line. Huselius is in the same price range as Malone except he offers more offense. You can probably add 10/10 to Huselius' stats playing with Bing. If you pick up Huselius and put him on Geno's line.. (which would be awesome), you still don't have anyone to play with Sid.

Three. If it's not Kennedy on line 1, then it's Hall. Look at the depth chart. Those are the best two options at RW so long as Syko says with Malkin. If Dupuis spent considerable time on the top line, there's no reason Kennedy/Hall couldn't.

Aron said...

From the Buffalo News:


The Sabres aren't allowed to talk to other teams' free agents until July 1. But the Sabres' prospects can talk to their brothers, so they've got that going for them, which is nice.

Andrew Orpik, the East Amherst native who was the Sabres' seventh-round pick in 2004, lives with his brother, Brooks, in the offseason...

"I think Buffalo is a place he'd definitely want to come. He grew up here and he's got a special bond with the place, but like I said, it's a business, too, and it's his way of living so we'll see what happens."

okokokokwe'llgiveyoumoremoneytostayblog

Flyer Hater said...

Stilly, Kennedy is just not a top 2 line player in this league. Do you want a repeat performance of Colby Armstrong with Sid?

Stilly said...

@flyer hater

Those are the options. You can have Hall or you can have Kennedy. If you don't sign Huselius and insead go with a RW free agent, the talent pool is similar (Dupuis, Ruu, Caputi)

Stilly said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
brndlynn said...

@ uncleyorgi: i havent thought too much about it yet but i know redden would want too much $. i think rozsival might be a good fit depending on the $.
@ stilly: i personally love kennedy and i look forward to what he may be able to do in the future. i just dont think he's quite ready for top 6.

Flyer Hater said...

Stilly, when you have role players that aren't playing in their proper roles, you're in trouble. To have Kennedy AND Dupuis on the top 2 lines spells trouble. Sid deserves better than Tyler f'ing Kennedy or Adam Hall. Come on...

Stilly said...

The Pens just don't have any depth at either wing. If you pick up two wings for the top line, you might as well have offered Ho$$a his big money and kept the status quo.

Alternative is move Staal to a wing and sign a free agent for the other wing. Let Talbot run the third line.

Dan said...

@ fh - jagr, just say no

sitting out fablog. it's pointless anymore.

uncleyorgi71 said...

HOSSA is such an idiot for turning down that deal.

Stilly said...

@FH

Yeah I get what you're saying.. what I'm saying is that THOSE ARE THE OPTIONS. There is no one else. Top three RW's Syko, Hall, Kennedy. Top three LW's Ruu, Dups, Caputi. That's it. The Pens have 5,000 centers, maybe they move Staal or Max.

Flyer Hater said...

Naslund 2 years 7 Mil
Vrbata 3 years 9 Mil
Fedotenko 2 years 5 Mil

Total Cap Hit 9 Mil

That's pretty close to what Hossa's cap hit is going to be and instead of having one line you have

Naslund-Crosby-Vrbata
Fedotenko-Malkin-Sykora

I would take that lineup over keeping Hossa, much more balanced.

Flyer Hater said...

Dan, Jagr can't hear you, he's got 2 Stanley Cup rings plugging his ears.

brndlynn said...

@ stilly: i know hes a center but i'd rather see talbs on the second line rather than dup, hall or kennedy. im not sold on staal moving off of the third line either. i'd be happy as hell if it worked but i just dont know.

Flyer Hater said...

Oh, there's no way I want Kristian Huselius in here anyway. He makes Maxime Afinogenov look like Rick Tocchet. Guy is soff'

Victor Raison said...

All this talk is about as pointless as Around the Horn, or PTI.

Dan said...

9 cities that won't break your budget

Pittsburgh has major-league teams in football (Steelers), hockey (Penguins) and baseball (Pirates). Fan support and interest is legendary.

brndlynn said...

i know... i know. im done with FAblog as well now.

uncleyorgi71 said...

Huselius rapes little girls anyways.

Dan said...

@ fh - then he can see me giving him the finger

Flyer Hater said...

Victor Raisin, what the hell else are we supposed to talk about?

Flyer Hater said...

I think Dan is Andy Ference.

Aron said...

don't worry everyone...soccerblog will start soon. becarefulwhatyouwishforblog

brndlynn said...

all of a sudden im all for FAblog again.... no offense to soccer fans, but im not all tht excited about soccerblog.

Aron said...

lol brndlynn...that's what I thought...although soccerblog is inevitable.

brndlynn said...

i figured it was but i was hoping against the odds. it starts at what...2:30pm (eastern)?

uncleyorgi71 said...

How can one be a fan of the fastest sport in the world and a fan of the slowest sport in the world?

Aron said...

sounds about right. however the live feed could always go out again rendering soccerblog mute.

Flyer Hater said...

Uncleorgy, I didn't know they were talking about baseball...

Aron said...

@uncleyorgii

i'm assuming you are talking about hockey and soccer. I like both because the strategies are very similar. Soccer when played right usually by brazilians can be a beautiful thing. It also has the potential to be a 0-0 colossal snoozefest(i know we have PK's in this tournament). you take the good with the bad.

uncleyorgi71 said...

Baseball is ten times more exciting than soccer. Baseball never ends in a 0-0 tie.

JYo said...

Naslund-Crosby-Vrbata
Fedotenko-Malkin-Sykora


I'd be just as happy with:

Dupuis-Crosby-Hossa
Talbot-Malkin-Syko

Just sayin...


however the live feed could always go out again rendering soccerblog mute.

If the feed goes out, that means more time for typing. WOOOOOOOOO!

Uncleorgy, I didn't know they were talking about baseball...

Great call, on the name and the slow game!

Aron said...

They are hard charging. They are abrasive. They are fearless. They are equal parts perspiration and inspiration. They are the consummate team player.

They are Pierre McGuire's Monsters!

hehewhatisthiscrapblog

JYo said...

Baseball is ten times more exciting than soccer. Baseball never ends in a 0-0 tie.

A 0-0 soccer game usually has 10X the action of a 5-4 baseball game. Its amazing how similar the anti-soccer folks sound to the anti-hockey folks in the MSM. Apparentlydontunderstandthegameblog.

uncleyorgi71 said...

Is that why it is oh so popular in America?

nicetrybeckhambutwedontwantyoublog

Flyer Hater said...

It's really amazing how people can sit there and call soccer boring and yet, love baseball and football. Just look at the crowds in most baseball markets, 300 year old men. Young kids couldn't care less about the shitty sport anymore. Football, 3 yard run, 2 minute break, incomplete pass, 2 minute break, ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. Soccer is awesome.

Flyer Hater said...

Yeah Unclehomo, because Americans are always right...

JOKE

Aron said...

get out of the way it's fh jobbing time

ceby22 said...

jagrs coming back to the burgh.

HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

brndlynn said...

i actually like watching soccer live where you can fully appreciate the action, i just cant get into it on tv. i think its kinda like hockey in that way at least - its hard to convince anyone that its a great sport until you take them to a game.

PittHockey said...

straka to the czech republic.

on his way, he broke his arm packing his luggage.

uncleyorgi71 said...

"Young kids couldn't care less about the shitty sport anymore."

I'm not even going to respond to this comment. That sentence alone shows how much intelligence you have.

I Have Kasparaitis said...

Malone isn't gone yet ... maybe if they offered him more than "slightly over" his current pay, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

I have now decided to rant, skip over it if you like ...

Ryan Malone is a 28 year old power forward. Who else here can be described as a power forward who can play in the Top 6? Staal isn't developed yet, plays center, and (don't get me wrong I love him to death) cannot bring the physical aspect Bugsy does during his playing time. Ryan Malone has played with Mario, Sid, and Malkin ... how many players can say that? And he has done quite well and all I see is everyone using his time with Malkin as a hinderance to his game. Let's look at Malkin's goals and Malone's assists. Malkin has 47 goals and Malone has 24 assists. About half (23.5 is half of 47) of Malkin's goals could be credited as Malone assists. Meaning when all of you talk about Malone getting goals from playing with Malkin, you also fail to realize the affect Malone has on Malkin. Malkin's game opened up because he could play with Malone and Sykie. Perfect chemistry there. Malone pushed through, used his power and his hands, and was able to feed passes to Malkin and Sykie. Malkin isn't that self-less let's be honest unless he tries to change his game up to be more like Sid. It really annoys me that we are cutting down his game because he played with the best forwards in the league. Malone isn't just playing the top-lines because he is the only one available. He's playing because he's great at what he does and deserves to be playing up there. Obviously, you are going to have more points playing with the best in the league but you have to be somewhat talented to get Malone's numbers. You can all talk about Colby and him playing with Sid, but who did too? Malone. Because Colby's quality as a player is more thrid/fourth line, he cut down the possible production the top line should of had. The first year Malone played in the NHL was good and everyone comments about his middle seasons being poor and then this was the year that "he played well for his money." To look at Malone's stats you have to see that his first year he produced 43 points in 81 games. His next year, he only played 77 (which was caused by him punching Witt's face and breaking his arm) yet he produced 44 points. Still pretty good. He produced a point more than the previous year and played 4 less games. Not that big of deal but still. The next year his stats slipped. In the 64 games played he only registered 31 points, but he began to mold into the power forward he is today. He works tirelessly throughout the off-season, goes up to Canada to box and learn how to fight better, and works on his game like every other player. The man works hard and deserves a raise for all the effort he has put into the team. He is a top 6 player whether or not you think so or not and plus, he does great work on both powerplay and penaalty-killing. He has established himself and perfected his craft. He is not going to end up slacking like he has before.

End Rant ... You May now begin It's5o'clockSomewhereDrinking ...

Isn't soccer the most popular sport in the world?

JYo said...

Isn't soccer the most popular sport in the world?

Yes, and there isn't a close second. Still, when have 99% of Americans cared about the rest of the world???

Dan said...

i've tried to watch soccer and found it painfully boring. does that make me a bad person?

jaos said...

I'm not sure if anyone else already posted this, but apparently the Sens need Gary's grit.

Aron said...

@ dan

nope

JYo said...

Thanks for the link about da Burgh Dan. I found this tidbit about Harrisburg fairly interesting:

"It's a quiet city in the central part of the state, an hour and a half east of Philadelphia."

I was also surprised that the population of Pittsburgh is listed at 2.3 million. Is that right? Sounds a tad high to me.

AmericanHero269 said...

Mentioning of the Dark Knight=Clutch.

This movie, and it's viral campaign are sick. I am so stoked.

Go Pens. Make some great signings.

Dan said...

soccer is like basketball in the back and forth sense - minus all the pointless scoring. i don't know what it is but i can't make it through more than 5 minutes of a soccer game. baseball is fun to watch live. football, i may actually prefer to watch at home (i never turn down tickets though). hockey i can watch either way, but god there is nothing better than live hockey, especially the playoffs. nascar is actually a fun event to attend believe it or not.

Aron said...

i don't know anything about this dark knight thing. does that make me a bad person?

JYo said...

Meaning when all of you talk about Malone getting goals from playing with Malkin, you also fail to realize the affect Malone has on Malkin.

If you replace Malone on that line, Malkin's numbers will look close to identical. If you replace Malkin with anyone other than Sid, both Malone and Syko go way down.

I'm not saying Malone is worthless by any means. He is definitely a top 6 forward and has significant value as a rugged forward that can play in front of the net. He is still not worth what he is likely to be paid on the open market when you put it in context of this team's salary structure.

Flyer Hater said...

Jyo, I'm pretty sure that's the Pittsburgh-Metro area. The population of the actual City of Pittsburgh is in the 400,000 range.

brndlynn said...

nothing beats a hockey playoff game. i had been to a few pretty intense hockey matchups earlier this year but nothing prepared me for Game 1 of the Sens series. i didnt think it could get any louder in the mellon until game 4 of the SCF. i cant imagine any sport ever topping that.

Dan said...

@ jyo - i wondered the same thing about the population, that seems high to me. could it be from 2000 census numbers? i laughed about harrisburg. there is nothing out there really and it is kind of pricey. an hour and a half from filthy isn't far enough away.

@ aron - i'm sorry, but it might. this thing is HUGE

I Have Kasparaitis said...

@dan: Yeah, it doesn't bother me that people don't like soccer ... Nascar is really fun to attend. All the pre-race stuff is so much fun and then the race is pretty cool to view from the stands. I can watch basically any sport but it doesn't mean I like it ... basketball bores me because most of the game seems pointless, though, I do watch college sometimes. Golf is a sure fire way to get me to sleep.

uncleyorgi71 said...

Hockey = Best Sport Ever

JYo said...

i don't know what it is but i can't make it through more than 5 minutes of a soccer game.

That is exactly how I feel about basketball. I can't get excited about some guy jumping 6 inches to slam a ball through a hole. It seems like it should be more interesting, but I couldn't care less. Of course, where I grew up, basketball was for people who can't wrestle!

brndlynn said...

poor ihk - i'll have a drink for you to forget all this malone talk.

Dan said...

oh i hate basketball, forgot to mention that.

turn the page?

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